Most people in western societies don't understand the concept of karma very well, or at least they don't articulate it in a way that's consistent with its traditional spiritual meaning. Naturally, as a bit of a pedant, it seems important to me to correct this misconception. Karma is something that happens on the scale of multiple lifetimes, like evolution, not shorthand for "payback is a bitch". Of course, that's something a bit vague in a culture like ours where "forever" is usually used to represent "until I die" as opposed to, well, forever. Still, it's an important distinction.
But, like any concept of faith which transcends an individual's lifetime, some people use the "well I'll be dead then" argument to justify being unkind. I like to see it as justification for the opposite behavior; There's something quite appealing about the sense that progress is based on the sum total of your decisions and actions. Leaves a little more room for making mistakes and meandering around a bit while figuring out how to live one's life.
Usually when I articulate the actual meaning of karma to people, which is usually in a context somewhat akin to correcting their grammar, I immediately get the question, "Well, if it only happens after you die, what do you think of Instant Karma?" After hastening to point out that karma doesn't happen after you die, but rather as you progress to your next life, I usually explain that, to me at least, something like John Lennon's work is an artistic expression of a concept, and one that I find pretty appealing. Instant karma doesn't exist, of course, in Hindu or Buddhist tradition. But it's kind of like trying to Do the Evolution, a nice way to try to get control of something that's bigger than just your own life, or lifetime.
"Instant Karma" most definitely exists in the Buddhist tradition. Where do you think the term comes from? And it corresponds to something that we all experience every day. It's actually just *bizarre* that you would think that this is something that John Lennon invented. Study your Buddhism, young man.
Also.. Karma doesn't have to exist across multiple liftimes. This only happens in Eastern religions that believe in reincarnation. It's not universally accepted in Zen Buddhism but in Tibetan Buddhism reincarnation is very much a part of the religion.
Karma can also be thought of as as longer process. They key point here is awareness. That if you do something that's "bad karma" that this will generally come back to haunt you.
In Tibetan Buddhism your karma is used to determine how you will be reborn in the next life. Generally in Zen Buddhism karma is very important but there is no rebirth clause... Being enlightened would tend to cause someone to pay attention to their karma and there is no said 'punishment' for it...
I find that Christianity falls down here. There are the Ten Commandments and if you break them you will go to hell. There's no logical argument why you should pay attention to your karma just for karma's sake.
If you don't believe in a hell why should you behave. Enlightenment should take care of that though...
I find the enlightment approach to Zen very attractive.
... anyway...
Bob, there's certainly a concept of karmic retribution or karmic debt, but the popular conception of your actions on a day-to-day basis immediately determining your everlasting fate in the same way that, say, sin does in many interpretations of Christianity does not exist.
And certainly John Lennon didn't invent the concept, except in the context of modern pop culture.
And Kevin, I was definitely speak of karma in the definition of the spiritual traditions where it originally arose. No disprespect intended towards Zen Buddhism, of course, but the point was more about the historical meaning of the term.
The story that I like is when the "Blue Boy" points to the line of ants going across the palace floor.
Karma is a convenient way for upper-caste Hindus to oppress lower-caste ones by saying that the oppression they suffer is their own fault for behaving badly in a previous lifetime. It's an incredible "blame the victim" device.
What's amazing is that among the trenderati it catches on without any thought to the lack of internal consistency of the idea, and its inherent bias towards the powerful, the rich, and the aggressors.
if anyone is interested : - http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/bps/wheels/wheel248.html
Karma is a universal concept. When Christians say that Jesus sacrificed himself for the sins of all humans, what they are essentially saying is that one has to pay for "bad karma"... and Jesus paid for the "bad karma" of the human kind for its benefit. And this is the "good karma" of Jesus. When Islam calls for jehad (I am not referring to the insular Wahhabi view), they are talking of doing karma. In and of themselves, the religions are quite same... what differs is some nuances and some cultural interpretations.
Karma was never used as a means to oppress people in Hinduism. My grandmom always said in difficult times that she was facing "misfortune" due to her previous "karma"... and if she does the "right karma", she will be free from misfortune. I used to think that this was a defeatist view - blaming misfortune on karma; but quite the contrary was true. I realized that just before coming to US for my PhD. She said to me that doing your karma is in your hands, nothing else is. If things go wrong, it was your "bad karma" (from previous life, of course); but not doing your karma means you are exposing yourself to more misfortune.
I guess the western view of misfortune is defeatist; my grandmoms view of misfortune was to take control.
As you may realize, the karma my grandmom spoke of has nothing "instant" about it. Of course, there are different "versions" different beliefs; what I described above is karma for me. BTW, the last "a" in "Karma" is silent. Its more like "karm" than "karma".
You really believe in Karma, Anil? There's too much crap going down in this world for that to be a believable idea.
Madman,
That is an insular view of Karma. I have never heard of karma being used as a justification for crimes. It is kind of typical of human nature to portray an "alien" concept as something bad. In fact, I have come to realize, that karma is the opposite of what the site skepdic.com portrays.
To cite an example from the skepdic.com, in case of a rape, the concept of karma applies as follows :
1. Committing a rape is committing a heineous act - a VERY bad karma, which you will have to repay.
2. You will pay for or reap from your karma not in hell or in heaven, but on this VERY earth.
3. If you witness a rape, its your duty to use the best of means available to you to prevent it or to ensure justice. Doing otherwise is shunning your karma.
In Hindu mythology, even Gods (or their awatars a.k.a. reincarnations) have received punishment for their ku-karma (ku = "bad").