Whence the Name

Glad you wrote that. Living in Hong Kong, I've come across many people who ask me about New York and one of their first assumptions is "People there are so mean!"

I'm like, when have you been there.

They haven't.

Good blog, man, I like it.

Amazingly written.

Being never been able to visit the city, NY depicts in my mind as a city of big buildings and gun fights and car crashes. That's probably because of TVs and Movies. I wonder if we will ever see NY as described here in this article, on any movies or TV series.

Thanks

I've been to New York once, for a day. I liked what little bit of the city I saw. But. I'm from the Midwest, currently living on the East Coast. In my experience, a lot of Midwesterners resent New York--not necessarily because of the constant going-on by residents, but more because of the constant going-on of the media. The American media seems to think that if it's a big deal in New York, it's a big deal for everyone. Which isn't always true. Sometimes it is, but a lot of the time it isn't.

I'm not articulating this very well, I'm afraid. But what I'm trying to say is that people should be proud of where they live, but not at the expense of where other people live. And very often, the impression that non-New Yorkers get about people from New York (generally via the media) is that they think everywhere but New York sucks, and they feel insulted by that. As well they should, because it is insulting.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask a horribly crass question but having read your line about New York as 'peerless' I can't help myself:

Which is better New York or London? (i.e. London, UK and not London, Ontario)

After those first few paragraphs I was about to say "Europe right? You're talking about Europe?" :)

The choice between London, UK, and New York is easy.

I have lived in London, and London is a beautiful city, but it doesn't come close to New York in terms of vitality, or even the diversity of New York.

New York has the greatest culinary availability of any city in the world. You name a cusine, any tiny nationality and we will have its culinary treasures offered. And most likely buried somewhere in Flushing, Queens, but still here in this beautiful city.

I was born here, grew up far away, but live here now, and will always regret the days spent far away from these city streets.

Thanks for the wonderful and inspiring post, it comes at the right time as I'm only a few weeks from becoming the newest resident there, and I've been both excited about the new possibilities and afraid of my preconceived ideas.

I have been to the city a few times and my impressions weren't too good (perhaps I had my cynical glasses on): It's also nice to know that the city is "on the brink of a renaissance to rival the Beaux Arts splendor that beautified the city 100 years ago" because it does need the beautifying. It always seemed incongruent to me that being home to such a high number of artists, designers of all kinds, powerful people, etc. the city itself isn't pretty, and there's no reason for it. Many other big cities suffer the same disorderly growth, problems, etc. and still manage to at least have many really beautiful areas, but I haven't found these in NY.

I'll have plenty of time soon enough, and your passionate, positive view really is brightening mine. Thanks.

I have lived in London and NY, adore them both and cannot imagine living anywhere else, but eventually Manhattan just got a little bit too claustrophobic for me; the vastness of London and the very different pockets of life and energies that are constantly emerging/mutating/evolving all across the city will always appeal to me more. After a while I realised I had covered pretty much every corner of Manhattan; in London (where I was born and live now) there are still places I have never been or even heard about. Additionally I would actually say London matches NYC in terms of diversity, both cities have had a long history of immigration. The only problem with the two places is that they are too damn expensive: the cost of a beer in NY is fucking ridiculous (4/5 bucks plus dollar tip?!) while eating out in London is a joke too. And don't even get me started on renting....

But this is a futile discussion in most ways. Both cities are unique in their own way....

But isn't NYC so expensive now that *only* the very rich live there? Can you live a reasonably middle-class existance in the city and earn less than $100k? Can you ever hope to own an apartment?

New York City is the sum of its parts - i.e. the other boroughs.

"I wonder if we will ever see NY as described here in this article, on any movies or TV series."

I think I see this on Law and Order (and its cohort series). Discounting the bodies, we see the detectives all around the town, among people living their lives, eating, in offices, various types of residences. It doesn't make the city look bad, I think.

"It's loud here, much of the time"
says it all...
another Londoner does a "special relationship" comment.
New York is lovely at times.

Interesting. There are areas of Atlanta that asymptotically approach the Manhattan-ness that you describe. While it is a relatively young city shaped primarily by car culture and lacking in the kind of centralized planning (and extensive public transit) that characterize much of New York, there are large areas in which many educated, engaged citizens take public transit to work, discuss politics over lunch, and frequently partake of and patronize artistic endeavors.

But that car thing, Anil. That car thing changes EVERYTHING. I don't know how many square miles of Atlanta are covered in parking lots. But I do know that people drive more than 100,000,000 miles a day here (4 million drivers averaging 25 miles a day- a conservative estimate from several years ago.) While I live only a mile from work, and walk that distance unless I have to be somewhere immediately afterwards (which happens twice a week on average), I frequently find myself as one of hundreds of people in the Target parking lot, navigating my Corolla through a sea of SUVs.

Car culture notwithstanding, Atlanta has been very good to me so far. By and large, people here are friendly, and often more informed and tolerant that they are historically credited as being.
(Full disclosure: I live inside the I-285 "Perimeter", and am not familiar with the many of the suburban areas.)

When I read articles such as the one appearing in the NYT in October "What Can You Get for a Million? Something Average" describing the NYC rental market, I can only conclude that life in Manhattan, for all of its virtues, is a privilege that can only be afforded by the economic elite.

So, I admire your vision of Manhattan, Anil. And while I do not think it is an elitist vision, by any means (other cities could and, dare I say, should be more like Manhattan, in many ways) I fear that living in Manhattan is simply out of reach for 95%+ of us, wherever we come from.

Atlanta, for all of its sustainability issues, is not a bad place to be, especially when you are 24 and first starting out.

PS- You're right about the Yankees.
But even more about Bill O'Reilly. I bet he tires easily from living in a city of open-minded, educated people who can readily challenge his pabulum.

Thank goodness some of us don't live in NYC so that y'all have food to eat and places to ship your garbage to.

And other places for people to come from in order to feed the newness and the vibrancy.

Nonetheless, twas a lovely essay.

I'm happy you like where you live; just please keep your "new urbanism" and "vitality" to yourselves please. The one thing New Yorkers need to understand is that pretty much everyone who wants to live in a place like NY already does, so don't foist your values upon the rest of us.

I grew up 40 minutes from Manhattan; I've been there countless times. To me, there is no worse hell on Earth. If you look at the demographics/migration patterns, you'll find that most Americans feel the way I do - we love our cars, we love the suburbs, we love the American culture.

Again, I'm very happy NY exists so that people who like that kind of place have somewhere to go where they won't bother the rest of us...

It might help clarify my postion to know that as I read your first six paragraphs, I was thinking "God, that sounds like a real hell-hole".

"pretty much everyone who wants to live in a place like NY already does"

Umm ... do you have any idea how expensive NYC is?

The way I see it, there are two types of people in this world: those who want to live in the center of the universe, and those who don't. If you want to, you will move to New York and make it work, somehow, even if you're not earning six figures. Every day, new New Yorkers arrive and love it here despite the fact that most of their $30k salary is going on renting a windowless room in a shared walk-up apartment. Yes, buying an apartment is very expensive. But it's not an insurmountable barrier to entry. On the other hand, if you're the type of person who doesn't want to live in the center of the universe, you shouldn't live here even if you're making $500k a year.

"Umm ... do you have any idea how expensive NYC is?"

Yes. Notice that I didn't say, "everyone who wants to live in a fantasy world NY where everything is the same, but apartments are free" - being expensive comes with the density and beaurocracy of a place like NY.

The belief that it's the Center of the Universe is so quintessential New York, eh? Just the opposite of the Falklands, I suppose.

Anil, I heartily agree! Too many people exclaimed when I was moving here, "Boy, isn�t that expansive to live there?" Well, no. I don�t have a car, I don�t have car insurance. I ride the subway or I walk or I take a cab or I ride a bike. So not only am I not polluting the environment, I am in really great shape. I eat out about 3-4 times a week, always at a new place [shameless plug] experiencing a different culture. I�ve lived in Boston, San Francisco and Cincinnati - nothing compares to New York. I live in Brooklyn, have a roommate, but my apartment is bigger than any apartment that I have lived in. It may not be Manhattan, but it is a subway ride or a short taxi ride to the city. I have friends who make as much as me who live in The City, and they do alright. I make between 35k-50k a year, I have student debts, but I do everything I want to do, and I save money. I actually take more money home now then I did living in every other city I have lived in. Yes, it is more expensive than other parts of the country, but no I am not poor.

While there are some negatives, such as the fact that owning property probably is not an option, and that finding shop space that is affordable has been a pain, that is about it. There are a lot of people here, but I only have felt crowded or suffocated twice: once trying to see the Macy�s Thanksgiving Day balloons being inflated, and once on a particularly crowded subway car. That�s it. You find your own comfort zone here, be it crowded bars, lounges, or Downtown. Or parks, the street, or Brooklyn. There is literally something for everyone here. I don�t think that people who live elsewhere understand this. They are used to the homogenous landscape of the edge city and the suburbs. But here, if you want Skyline [Downtown, Midtown] or rolling planes [Central Park] or water [the Hudson and Riverside Park] or hills [Morningside] or what have you. I think paying a little more up front is worth all of that.

Oh, and New Urbanism - which is neither new or urban - started in the suburbs of America. In fact NU tries to recreate the connections between people of older pre-car days. Unfortunately, most of it is tied to crap stylistic notions of what �American� is as an Architectural vocabulary. And the notion that demographics are pointing to the �American love for the car,� well that is a chicken and egg situation caused mostly by advertising.

When I travel through America, I am stunned by its beauty, and its banality which is starting to crowd the beauty. I don�t want the rest of the world to be like New York, I just want the rest of the world not look like an after effect of a blast zone fueled by constant homogenous places and people.

"And the notion that demographics are pointing to the �American love for the car,� well that is a chicken and egg situation caused mostly by advertising."

Can someone interpret this sentence for me? I can't seem to make head nor tails of it....

As someone who has lived in both London and Atlanta previously and now lives in New York City, I read these comments with interest.

I lived in downtown Atlanta, where I walked just under a third of a mile to work every day. It was great, but to go to a video store, grocery store, or to visit friends, I had to use my car.

In New York, I miss driving -- the actual act of driving -- but I most emphatically do not miss car insurance, getting the car broken into, finding a place to park, traffic congestion, et cetera, et cetera.

My company relocated me last year from Atlanta to New York, and while they increased my salary to compensate for the added cost of living, they didn't increase it nearly enough for me to maintain the same kind of buying power/disposable income that I had in Atlanta. It's okay, though: I could afford to live in Manhattan if I so chose, but probably only in a teeny studio apartment with something wacky about it (like the bathtub in the kitchen, or no windows, or a walk-in closet classified as a bedroom.) Instead, I live in a nice section of Queens (Astoria, the Steinway/Ditmars neighborhood to be precise) where I can get a smallish one-bedroom with a backyard on a quiet street for about the same amount of money.

Re: London vs. NYC, well, both cities are great. New York seems to have more of an air of manic energy about it (which could either be bad or good, depending on your feelings.) I will say this: all my life I used to want to live in London on some kind of permanent basis. Living there for four months while I was in college only strengthened that desire. But, I found that that went away as soon as I moved to New York -- turned out that my desire was simply to live in a really big city. (and London was the biggest city I'd lived in or even been to up until I moved here.) I still love London and go there every year or two for a visit, but living in New York scratched that itch for me.

While New York is busy being full of itself, Chicago silently laughs, quite content being the last great American city.

how is it that i read a piece like this and my only reaction is to correct your grammar?

"it is inarguably among the greatest cities that has ever been."

perhaps my knee-jerk-grammarian-elitist-gestapo tactics will serve me well when i move to new york....holding.....

it is truly the center of it all. i think endemic 'perception problem' stems from the vibrant nature of new york. the people living there don't really have the time to stop and welcome outsiders with open arms and waste precious time scoring points in the miss congeniality contest.

"i'm in new york. i got people and things to do and places to go. get on board or get out of my way."

I liked the ironic parts, like where the new yorkers are said to be friendly and open to strangers.

I HEART NYC. I live in the Poconos of PA, in the boonies where there's dairy farms and lots of deer hunting going on. This is the place where if you need milk you need to drive 25 minutes to grocery store, park in a nightmare of a parking lot.. etc. etc. And since almost every errand involves driving you see nothing wrong with pumping $25 a week or more into your gas tank. Oh yea, and oil changes.

My wife commutes to the Bronx twice a week from here, for grad school. Its tough, but we know someday that we'll move there and love it. Love it. Love it.

A simply wonderful post! I love the city for all of the same reasons. I have the added experience of living in the suburbs of Atlanta before moving to Manhattan. Having Atlanta as a resource within driving distance is nowhere near as useful or rewarding as having New York as a resource, especially because I don't need to drive. I'm lucky to have NYU housing, as I'm currently in a dorm overlooking Washington Square park. Although I'm still in school, I know it's possible to live here comfortably on a moderate income. Hopefully, I'll be able to do that after graduation.

Have you been to Harlem recently? It's probably not somewhere you visit often, because it does not fit your lovely description of NYC. I agree that there are many wonderful things about NYC, but I personally can't get past the stark division between the rich and poor.

At least poverty is not hidden, as it is in the most suburban and rural areas. Also, there are many people here who choose to help the less fortunate. I'm not dismissing the fact that poverty is a huge problem; I'm only purporting that less is done about it in other places.

Very interesting post as well as comments. But perhaps the 'center of the universe' mentality is the one that is offputting to those who choose to live outside NYC. (I was quite offput when television programming was preempted for 4 continuous hours of Blackout 2003 coverage -- the real irony being that those directly affected couldn't even watch the coverage).

I definitely don't argue that NYC is a great place. Though I have never been there, it is that place I want to visit, fully aware that I will never even come close to experiencing everything it has to offer.

In response to Randy, I would like to point out that many of us are not '...used to the homogenous landscape of the edge city and the suburbs.' I quite enjoy the view out my window of the rugged Rocky Mountains jutting up into a purple and blue skyline. Also, never underestimate the freeing feeling of being able to see to the very edge of the distant horizon.

First part was very poetically written. You took me to another place, a place that I thought only existed in your mind. Its good to know its a real, breathing city. Maybe next year I will visit there.

Harlem is a vast, diverse, vibrant part of New York City. While there are pockets of poverty and despair, it is experiencing a revitalization of grand proportions. Ask Slick Willie.

I live in Brooklyn (for all of my life) and wouldn't think of leaving. However, Manhattan is the place to be and I enjoy my daily commute there for work and pleasure.

...we love our cars, we love the suburbs, we love the American culture...

Jesus, save them from themselves. They'll die, die, die, having only been comfortable, not vivid. It's oblivion they want, reaching backward into life from the eternity of death. Others who are alive try, try, try to fend off the darkness until their last seconds, and sometimes, when they are too many for the world, they fend it off even beyond.

Damn I miss this stinky city... Why did you have to remind me? :)

I guess you didn't hear that a Home Depot is going up at 5th and 23rd...I'm half-excited and half-wary.

"If you look at the demographics/migration patterns, you'll find that most Americans feel the way I do - we love our cars, we love the suburbs, we love the American culture."

So now New York culture isn't American? Only the suburbs and rural cultures are American? Only your lifestyle qualifies as American culture? Wow, that totally comes as news to me.

Shame on you, Paul. Your narrow view of "American culture" is, well, un-American.

People seem to have forgotten that you can't smoke in NY!
Smoking ban in restaurants: fine.
Smoking ban in bars: you f**cking crazy?!?!?!

Adorno - that's a state-wide law now. Even if Bloomberg repealed it, there's the whole Pataki thing to deal with.

And wasn't/isn't smoking banned in California's bars as well?

Anil - fantastic post. As someone who just moved here two months ago with a bit of trepidation, I've found nearly everything you say to be true. I'll be pinging shortly.

I've lived in NYC for over ten years and have loved every minute of it. I've even been fortunate to own a nice apt and start a family here.

Unfortunately, NYC is too expensive for us to raise two kids. Just to send them to nursery school is $5k per child per year. We don't own cars or enjoy many nights out on the town.

If you live to work, then NY is the place for you.

"So now New York culture isn't American? Only the suburbs and rural cultures are American? Only your lifestyle qualifies as American culture? Wow, that totally comes as news to me."

OK, so I should have said "stereo-typical American culture", or perhaps "suburban American culture".

I wasn't trying to put down urbanites, just explaining that most people don't want to live like you... it confounds me that those who live in the country or the suburbs, in general, don't begrudge the choices of those who live in the city, but the inverse can not be said to be true (at least for a very vocal minority).

The great thing about America is that you can live pretty much however you want - we have tropical island paradise (both urban and rural), we have big cities (both low and high density), we have suburbs, we have country, we have small cities and old towns, we have Alaska. Personally, NYC would be the very last place in the US that I would consider moving to - but that's just me, obviously about 0.5% of the people in the country disagree...

And as for those who think America outside of NY is homogenus or covered in "blight"; for the love of peat, do yourselves a favor and go see America. Just about 3/4 of the country is still pristine wilderness, and the parts that are populated sure ain't the same in Texas as they are in Montana or New Hampshire or Oahu. To me, all cities/inner suburbs pretty much share the same urban culture- it's out in the sticks where you find real cultural diversity....

It's nice to read about a person extolling the virtues of the place he inhabits. I feel similarly about my Chicago suburb, but for very different reasons.

Paul, sounds like you agree that the "in-between" that's not dense urban or rural beauty is sometimes a bit undifferntiated. And I don't even necessarily think that's a bad thing; I understand a lot of people are comforted by the familiarity.

What's striking to me is that so many people see me saying "here's why I love New York" as me saying "here's why where *you* live sucks". Yet I'd bet a lot of these people have no qualms saying "I love the U.S." and don't understand why other countries bristle at that sentiment.

I absolutely agree that the U.S. has an incredible variety of natural beauty, and that we don't see that in Manhattan. (Though there are still some beautiful natural areas in the outer boroughs.) But I think many of the people who don't live in New York City would appreciate at least visiting, if they weren't subjected to constant negative views of the city's people and culture.

It all comes around to a point that had struck me after the attacks two years ago... for all the genuine sympathy and empathy shown towards NYC, there were still millions of people in this country whose attitude towards New York ranged from suspicion to contempt, and that sentiment was either glossed over or ignored in the avalanche of "never forget" observances that followed. I can't help but feel a lot of those tributes would have been a lot more sincere if people had known how beautiful this city can be.

One does not need a reason to love a place, just as one does not need a reason to love one's country. If you feel compelled to find one, then you're in jeopardy of turning into a regionalist or a nationalist. Now, I have plenty of reasons for why I live where I live, but in truth I live here because the place has sunk its roots into me and I have become its willing prisoner. I take its good with its bad.

Nicole said: I quite enjoy the view out my window of the rugged Rocky Mountains jutting up into a purple and blue skyline. Also, never underestimate the freeing feeling of being able to see to the very edge of the distant horizon.

I as well enjoyed those mountains when I hiked in those mountains. I think, like Anil said, that there are mant landforms which NYC does not have. But you go a few miles away from those awesone landforms, and you have the same sameness and homogenous-ness as all other parts of America. Howard Kunstler has written extensiveley about this. We are in the land without a rooted sence of Place due many different factors are creating this homogenous landscape. And Paul, I have traveled through the US, and besides the spectacular places, all of the cities look the same. Maybe it is a bit of nostalgia to wish for places and cities which actually has a place!

Anil:

I did not mean to imply that you, personally, were insulting anyplace outside of NYC - my initial posts were simply entered as a reminder that there are those of us (inimately familiar with the city) who wouldn't live in NYC for any price. As you're undoubtedly aware, not everyone values the same aspects of "place".

Interestingly, you seem to be saying that your post was somewhat motivated by your percieved misapprehension of NYC by those who have not yet visited the place, but who do feel free to pass judgement. My response was likewise motivated - here in the suburbs we are constantly being judged by urbanites (especially urban planners) who have never visited the suburbs or who don't understand that a lot of us really like Home Depot and Costco, we love our cars, and we love our acreage.

Unfortunately, too many people really do think "where I live is great, and everywhere else sucks" (see the posts by Grant Barrett or Felix)....

Paul, you are right. I am passing judgement. But I did grow up in the suburbs, and have studied the suburbs extensively throughout my years as an architect. I agree that I like the conveniance, but the law of unintended consequences is being shown in terms of low wages to workers [McJobs], low wages for those in far away countries who make and produce those wares, and the cornering of the market by feudal capitalists [in opposition to democratic capital which Adam Smith wrote about]. All of these issues are bound together tightly, so much so that it is hard to comprehend. Paul, do you agree that what you feel from Urban Planners is �We know better than you about your living condition?� I hope it isn�t too late to lump us all who are interested in saving/reviving urbanity into the same category. Too many times it decends into �us/them� fights, when what happens in the suburbs effects the cities and vice versa.

That would be "apprentice architect" - man, I could goto jail posing as an architect before I took my boards.

Randy, I have but two things to say and then I will stop hijacking Anil's post:

a. just as you should not practice architecture without a license, you should stop practicing economics without an education - you clearly need to some remidial International Economics

b. apparently, the America you've travelled is not the same as the one I've seen (all 50 states, multiple times in each state)

Hmmmm... I've lived in London and NY... I prefer NY. That being said, both towns get economically less viable every year. I think the big-city thing is a bit outdated, anyway, especially for us net geeks.